Polish Breeders Club

has this ever hapen to eny one befor, you put in pure breed buff polish and one comes out white

Jon, please give a little more information and I will try to help.  What did you put the pure breed buff in with?  Large fowl or Bantam?  How long have you bred these birds pure?  The buff laced color pattern is a special one, but if one understands it, they can breed it with success.

glen

Me too, Me too! I had 2 chicks turn white out of LF Buff Laced. I had 3 breeding pens with the eggs in pedigree baskets. Some chicks escaped and I simply didn't keep up with the pedigree markings on any of them so I don't know who came from whom. At 4 mos. old the babies were white with a light buff undertone. Got rid of both of them. You can bet next year I'll pay closer attention.

Glen-I'd love to learn about breeding the laced pattern.

Glen-I'd love to learn about breeding the laced pattern

First thing is you have to know what you are breeding from.  What is in their background.  The white in the Buff laced is VERY dominant and will show up in almost anything you cross them with.  What is the background of your breeders?

glen

pure buff lace polish eggs in one bator no others and one when it was fetherd out it was white and theye are all standards

Jon

You are not helping any here man.  You did not answer my questions.  I'll try to help with your breeding problem, but I have to know what you are breeding.  How many years have you bred these birds?  How do you know they are pure?  Did the original stock come from a reputable breeder?  Are they hatchery birds?  Mixing eggs in the incubator has no bearing on what hatches. 

glen

two of the hens came from non hatchery stock of good quilety and the roo came from hatchery

I have two breeding flocks-A) cock came from reputable breeder, he's a bit dark so I put him with 2 good hens (good buff, medium-thick lacing) and 2 hatchery hens which are light buff with thicker lacing, B) cock came from same breeder put with 2 good hens. This is the first year I have bred any of them. The chicks got mixed up so I don't know who came from whom. I understand the white bird could have come from the hatchery birds but could they have come from a good breeding pair?

gcryar at October 4, 2011 at 10:20 AM

Jon

You are not helping any here man.  You did not answer my questions.  I'll try to help with your breeding problem, but I have to know what you are breeding.  How many years have you bred these birds?  How do you know they are pure?  Did the original stock come from a reputable breeder?  Are they hatchery birds?  Mixing eggs in the incubator has no bearing on what hatches. 

glen

Jon

Without knowing the background of your birds, you should not be suprised at what hatches out.  Mongrels throw mongrels, and mongrels are what most hatchery birds are.  The hatchery folks select their breeders for production, not for the quality of their off-spring. 

My suggestion, start over with pure blooded birds from an established exhibition line.  If you don't want to do this, you may have years of getting non-standard birds from your existing stock.

glen

Sherry,  I would think that the white bird came from the hatchery birds.  My suggestion is to discard the hatchery birds as well as the "unkowns."  Start over using only the established line.  Holding on to the unknowns will only result in mix-up down the line.  In the long run, you will come out ahead using only what you know to be pure.  You will see improvements in your quality in a much shorter time.

glen

I'v don that all ready the hole idea was to bring up the firtilty take a hatchery roo and non hatchery hens to produce a new roo with new blood and bring it back

Jon. w at October 4, 2011 at 7:15 PM

I'v don that all ready the hole idea was to bring up the firtilty take a hatchery roo and non hatchery hens to produce a new roo with new blood and bring it back

Jon

I do not have a clue what you are saying here.  You can rub two quarters together all day long and still will not have a  dollar.

glen

gcryar at October 4, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Jon. w at October 4, 2011 at 7:15 PM

I'v don that all ready the hole idea was to bring up the firtilty take a hatchery roo and non hatchery hens to produce a new roo with new blood and bring it back

Jon

I do not have a clue what you are saying here.  You can rub two quarters together all day long and still will not have a  dollar.

 

glen

So I'm taking it you do not know enthing about line breeding

Jon. w at October 4, 2011 at 8:36 PM

gcryar at October 4, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Jon. w at October 4, 2011 at 7:15 PM

I'v don that all ready the hole idea was to bring up the firtilty take a hatchery roo and non hatchery hens to produce a new roo with new blood and bring it back

Jon

I do not have a clue what you are saying here.  You can rub two quarters together all day long and still will not have a  dollar.

 

glen

So I'm taking it you do not know enthing about line breeding

This is supposed to be a civil help forum, guys.  And, Jon, when you have personally created a recognized variety as has Glen, you can tell him how little he knows about line-breeding.  Be nice.  We newcomers owe a lot to those who have helped the Polish become what it is today.

One question of my own.  Glen, I need to choose between 3 cockerels that all look like peas in a pod to me.  All are bantam buff-laced bearded siblings. What subtle factors should I be looking at in my own choice?

Cynthia Smith, DVM at October 4, 2011 at 11:27 PM

One question of my own.  Glen, I need to choose between 3 cockerels that all look like peas in a pod to me.  All are bantam buff-laced bearded siblings. What subtle factors should I be looking at in my own choice?

Cindy,

For good ground color, use the darkest males.  A good buff laced show male is worthless in the breed pen.  Using a show colored male will lead to loss of the rich color in the wings and tail of future generations.  I try to use males with RED in the back as breeders. 

To improve the lacing on the birds, look at the front of the wings on the MALES.  Look for the type of lacing you desire at the very front of the wings and just under the front of the wings.  The lacing here seems to carry forward to the offspring. Good clear lacing on the male's breast is important also.   Look for tail and primary lacing and use birds that are better in these areas.  Primaries are not laced, but look for good edging and endings on the feather edges and ends.  One of the important things in this color pattern is the sharpness of the creamy white.  There should be a clean break in color between the RICH buff color and the creamy white.  Stay away from birds that have lacing that kind of just fades into the buff color.  These are things that Dale Rice told me years ago.  Dale was probably the best buff laced breeder of all time.

My suggestion is to look at the three males, first for type, then for the one that best meets the color suggestions above.  Stay away from  the high tails.

glen

gcryar at October 5, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Cynthia Smith, DVM at October 4, 2011 at 11:27 PM

One question of my own.  Glen, I need to choose between 3 cockerels that all look like peas in a pod to me.  All are bantam buff-laced bearded siblings. What subtle factors should I be looking at in my own choice?

Cindy,

For good ground color, use the darkest males.  A good buff laced show male is worthless in the breed pen.  Using a show colored male will lead to loss of the rich color in the wings and tail of future generations.  I try to use males with RED in the back as breeders. 

To improve the lacing on the birds, look at the front of the wings on the MALES.  Look for the type of lacing you desire at the very front of the wings and just under the front of the wings.  The lacing here seems to carry forward to the offspring. Good clear lacing on the male's breast is important also.   Look for tail and primary lacing and use birds that are better in these areas.  Primaries are not laced, but look for good edging and endings on the feather edges and ends.  One of the important things in this color pattern is the sharpness of the creamy white.  There should be a clean break in color between the RICH buff color and the creamy white.  Stay away from birds that have lacing that kind of just fades into the buff color.  These are things that Dale Rice told me years ago.  Dale was probably the best buff laced breeder of all time.

My suggestion is to look at the three males, first for type, then for the one that best meets the color suggestions above.  Stay away from  the high tails.

glen

Thanks a lot for that detailed answer.  That gives me quite a bit more to go on.  Are you going to Crossroads?

Cindy

I will be at Crossroads.  I'm showing a few Polish and a few Modern Games.

glen

Great.  I'm flying in but a friend will drive a few birds for me.  See you there.

Glen - I've posted some pics in my album of a cockerel (K 22) and a cock (C 40). I'd appreciate your opinion on them.

PS It's ok to be brutally honest. I can take it. I want to improve my lines.